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Write once, run on your own server... in Java

Ok, this was so dumb it was funny, and so funny and dumb that I’m going to blog about it. One developer on a team I know (not at my employer!) suggested that the team use Java to “write once, run anywhere” for a server-side application that the team was going to host, on Windows. Even better was that everyone on the team except this guy was currently a .NET developer, while he was, you guessed it, a Java developer.

Here are some actual quotes:

“My only focus is on platform independence of the server-side code” and “It's a mistake for us to assume a platform for the server-side code” are artfully contrasted later with this:

“I'd actually say that, in the long term, it's also a mistake for us to assume a client platform. However, Java GUIs typically suck and the tools are expensive. Also, it's been my experience that most client platforms are still running Windows.”

Huh? So which one do we choose? But then comes the best part!

“Java's mantra of "write once, run anywhere" actually works very well with respect to server-side code.”

I’ll bet it does. It's nice to know that this is informed by someone who has done enough research to know about it:

“I did a 15-minute search thru Microsoft's .Net web site looking for statements, documents, white papers, etc describing how .Net was going to run on other platforms (at least Linux). Now this was a quick search and I haven't been using .Net for almost 1 1/2 years and certainly not following the .Net discussions during that time.”

I guess he missed anything about Mono in that quick search.

Published Jan 06 2004, 05:38 PM by darrell

Comments

Shannon J Hager said:

is there anything about Mono on "Microsoft's .Net web site"? I've never seen any reason to give Mono any credence, I would certainly never suggest a client of mine use it. As nice an idea as it is, until Uncle Bill says it's okay, I would steer clear.

# January 6, 2004 2:56 PM

Frans Bouma said:

Still, Java today has many more functionality than .NET, for example EJB-CMP, JDO and other technologies are widely used and mature. I'm not surprised someone opts for Java on the server side instead of .NET, because the tools available for Java are very very mature in a lot of areas.

.NET will be there, but it's naive to say .NET is already there, because they're not, not by far. That's ok, you can do a lot with .NET today, and you thus probably don't need Java's extras. However if you do, it's obvious you opt for Java.

Have a clear mind about what tool to pick to get the job done; no-one is served with naive zealottery.

# January 6, 2004 8:59 PM

Darrell said:

Shannon:

True Microsoft may not have any web pages on Mono, however I typed "Microsoft .NET on Linux" in Google and got 4 out of 10 hits on the first page describing the Mono project. The point is that the developer making these claims made a pitiful attempt to do any sort of research whatsoever.

# January 7, 2004 1:14 AM

Darrell said:

Frans:

There is no naive zealotry here. If 80% of the team is already quite proficient in .NET, why go with Java? The argument for platform independence is particularly weak with a server-side application (mostly webforms, with some web services for integration with ERP systems) that the team will host. The cost of hosting either option would be about the same, and negligible in the face of the development costs.

# January 7, 2004 1:15 AM

Mark said:

Platform independence is only one peace of the equation. Team familiarity with the development environment is another. Like Darrell said, why use Java if 80% of the development team are proficient in .NET? If the requirement for platform independence is only really a requirement because one person doesn't know .NET, then that point really becomes a straw man.

# January 7, 2004 1:26 AM

Steve said:

Let's make this easy and layout the following rules for picking between Java and .NET

Rule #1 - Choose .NET
Rule #2 - See Rule #1

:)

# January 7, 2004 1:44 AM

Darrell said:

Hehehe. Very funny, Steve. :D

# January 7, 2004 1:52 AM

Mark said:

Steve, I agree with you do an extent. However, I will always choose Java over .NET around 6am and whenever I get sleepy. I tend to enjoy Starbuck's implementation the best. Other well-known distributions are also ok from time to time. When I am on the road, 7-11 has a very good distributed implementation of Java with many nodes on their network providing their distro, they also have a quality guarantee.

# January 7, 2004 2:06 AM

Veintitres Puros said:

Mark,

Agreed. My main problem with these Java implementations with Mobile deployment. Starbucks coffee can sometimes be so hot that I burn myself in the car. Walking can also be difficult. Microsoft has it hands and feet over Java, with the Mobile toolkit. This should solve some of these problems.

# January 7, 2004 2:51 AM

Shannon J Hager said:

I would have to say that typing ".net in linux" into the google search is not the same type of research he wanted to do if he looked at the MS.Net site for information. Microsoft is not Open Source, getting unverified hacks, cracks, and geek projects from google links is nowhere near the same ballpark as getting information from Microsoft.
Like I said, until Bill says "go Mono!", don't do it. Period. Get your MS advice from google if you want, but do so at your own risk, not your clients or customers.

# January 7, 2004 4:25 AM

Darrell said:

I would not categorize Mono as an unverified hack, crack, but maybe a geek project.

There would be no risk to the team's clients or customers, as this is a server-side app. There would be only the Mono on Linux app to test.

I doubt Bill will ever say go Mono since he has a vested interest in selling Windows. But I would not be so quick to disregard Mono, as it opens up new markets. If you want to dismiss potentential revenue, go right ahead, but I think that it's foolhardy just because it's not "officially" MS-sanctioned.

# January 7, 2004 4:48 AM

Shannon J Hager said:

If MS were not anti-Mono (or at the very least keeping their options option for possible shut-down soon) then the Mono team would be listed in a case study on the MS site, Miguel would be listed as a partner, and Mono would be mentioned all over the MSDN site.

There is no reason to think that MS will let Mono continue. I think it is foolhardy to put your trust in the good nature of a company who has been legally declared guilty of abusing their monopoly and lied in federal court.

# January 7, 2004 5:19 AM

Darrell said:

I didn't say I put my trust in them. I don't use Mono. And I was in favor of using .NET on a Windows server.

I think there is a reason to let Mono continue, otherwise Microsoft would have already shut it down. Something is going on there.

# January 7, 2004 5:27 AM

Shannon J Hager said:

I think what is happening is called "wait and see". MS has not decided if/when to shut them down yet. Until they make that decision (and we will all know when they do), I think your advice ("I would not be so quick to disregard Mono, as it opens up new markets. If you want to dismiss potentential revenue, go right ahead, but I think that it's foolhardy just because it's not "officially" MS-sanctioned.") is a gamble that should not be taken.

# January 7, 2004 6:28 AM