David Hayden [MVP C#]

@David,

You can run an application in parallel, so you would have MonoRail + WebForms in the same application.

It is not recommended, but it is possible to do this, and is a supported scenario for migrating the application.

Most of the things that you mentioned WCSF has in your post (and what is it about to have) already exists in MonoRail's stack. The one thing that I am not sure about is Workflow, because I am not sure what exactly you mean here. MonoRail has support for complex wizards, which may end up the same thing.

I find that using MR gives me a lot more freedom to do what I need to do in a clean way, and I can get stuff done faster.

The WCSF has to deal with all the complexity of web forms in order to add additional functionality, MonoRail simply has to output the correct text.

This means that it is in a much better position in this regard.

@Bob

Thanks for the clarification. I start working with it today so my use of terminology thus far is no doubt lacking :)

@Ayende

I was unclear in the post. I wasn't planning to migrate an application. I meant to ask how an ASP.NET Developer best starts out learning and using MonoRail other than the GettingStarted and Documentation? I know a lot of times those types of documents lag behind features and was curious if there is an example or guide somewhere that currently reflects the latest offerings and best practices.

I look forward to the learning process that starts today on MonoRail along with more deep diving into Windsor. Very, very cool stuff.

IMO MonoRail solves a problem that not everyone has.  Ayende has stated the problem endlessly in his blog: that WebForms are a leaky abstraction.  If you don't feel this is the case and if you don't have problems with ViewState then the problem that MonoRail solves is probably not a problem that you want to solve.  (The problem doesn't even exist from your point of view!)

You can continue to use WebForms with MonoRail, but it isn't the default configuration and getting support from others doing it may be challenging.  There is also the Igloo contrib project which does MVC with WebForms without the rest of MonoRail.  It may be worth looking into too.

That said, I strongly feel that CastleProject has much more to offer than just MonoRail.  The productivity gains of Windsor and ActiveRecord are huge.  But these also solve problems that may not be problems for everyone.  Of course if you don't know what they can do for you, you may not know that there is a better way.  Definitely spend some time checking them out.

David,

I have been using MonoRail on my last two projects and think it is very solid. Now granted, I am coming from the opposite direction that you are, I have no knowledge of WCSF and have pretty good knowledge now of MonoRail.

I've adopted Nvelocity as the view engine to use as this is the one that was branched by the Castle Team. You have a couple of other options such as Boo and even WebForms.

As Jay said, The Castle project has alot more to offer than just MonoRail, and when you couple MonoRail with Windsor and ActiveRecord, you have a pretty good foundation for a framework. For the two projects I'm working on at the moment, the persistence needs are a little more complex than what ActiveRecord is designed for, so I opted for NHibernate with these, but if you want quickly persistable entities; then ActiveRecord is the way to go. Along with the ActiveRecord Scaffolding, you can have a UI interface in minutes that is fully persistable.

I would definately reccommend checking out all the features of Castle Project, as they are all fully useful.

MonoRail vs Web Client Software Factory (WCSF)

Jay, Sean-

You don't have to convince me of the wonderful offerings of the Castle Project. I have used Windsor and ActiveRecord many times. Love the offerings.

After a day of playing with MonoRail I only have really good things to say about it. I love the simplicity and absolutely love the Windsor Integration.

Later on tonight or tomorrow I will look at the ActiveRecord integration and then I will look more into AJAX and how to create better UI's with NVelocity. NVelocity has me a little worried only because it is new to me and I think I will miss some of the ASP.NET WebControls.

I am also wondering about 3rd party hosting and the use of the .rails extension. Much to learn...

Im just starting out with WCSF. Just a thought. Wouldnt it be possible to have a version of WCSF that has a top layer of MonoRail linking to the lower layers of the usual type of BLL, DAL etc that is already being generated? or does the MonoRail approach preclude using the rest of WCSF/other guidance packages/recipes?

Benjy

David,

So one week in now with trying it out.  Did you ever find the documentation that you were asking about to help with the start of learning Monorail?  I've been going through both WCSF and Monorail right now trying to understand more of the differences and what can be done with each.  I think the WCSF docs are fairly impressive and was hoping something along the same lines may have been available.

Benjy

The combination is probably possible, however I personally wouldn't try such a combination until after we see WCSF v2.0 and Castle Project RC3.

I think ( hope ) the next version of WCSF is going to rock. Their roadmap looks good with the Data Driven UI, AJAX, Validation, EntLib 3.0 Support, and I hope a few other enhancements based on the Issue Tracker.

MonoRail has a lot of new features, but most of it is stuffed away in the svn repository and unreleased. I am hoping by the time WCSF 2.0 is out we will also see all the new stuff in Castle RC3 and at that point be able to make a clearer decision.

For me, I am using WCSF now and learning MonoRail and feel good about the decision.

bclubb,

Patterns and Practices documentation is always great. I think you're on your own when learning MonoRail as the "documentation" is the examples on the website, wiki, and various blogs.

I definitely prefer the MonoRail MVC pattern over the WCSF Model-View-Presenter Pattern. Much simpler and intuitive. It is just the view engines of MonoRail that are a little "different" to me.

As mentioned above, I am looking forward to the WCSF v2.0 as well as the RC3 of Castle. I think we will see some really cool stuff and perhaps an obvious winner. If they do it right, WCSF v2.0 will rock.