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David Hayden [MVP C#] » LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
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LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines

This is my last post on this subject, I promise, and unfortunately it has to be a little more blunt as some people just aren't getting it.

I was reading the comments on Oren's post on LINQ To SQL and mine and having a hard time digesting some of the comments. Some folks are having a difficult time reading between the lines. The ADO.NET Team's Announcement is everything about LINQ To SQL being dead! If you have spent anytime with a large corporation that needs to spin stories to minimize fall-out, you will know this to be true. The ADO.NET Team will not be proactively doing anything with LINQ To SQL. They will slowly euthanize it and distract you with mis-direction on talk of the Entity Framework.

The euthanasia is already in process-

  1. LINQ To SQL has a provider model to support multiple databases but was sealed so it could not be extended. What is the #1 thing about the Entity Framework? Multiple database support. Hmmm.....
  2. How difficult would it have been to offer IUpdatable support for LINQ To SQL for use with ADO.NET Data Services in SP1? Oh, that's right... Another reason to move to the Entity Framework!
  3. What did we get for LINQ To SQL in SP1? Drum Role... Support for SQL Server 2008 Data Types! Anyone doubt Oren could have coded that in a day and came out with a Hibernating Rhinos Screencast to boot :)

 

In all seriousness, I hope the Entity Framework v2.0 is a hit. I also think the ADO.NET Team should be spending all their time on the Entity Framework as it needs the attention. Give LINQ To SQL to another team - a more transparent team. A team that will get rid of some of the obvious ( intentional ) limitations and be more proactive in the development. A team that will be very open to community feedback and not divided in their loyalty. Get the original LINQ To SQL Development Team and other interested developers together directly under Scott Guthrie and give them a shot at LINQ To SQL - The Revival! Make it open source on CodePlex and follow a similar successful methodology to how the MVC Framework was developed.

If this doesn't happen, CodeBetter and Devlicio.us will be sponsoring a new series on DimeCasts.net and Patterns & Practices Guidance to help you through these troubling times - Converting LINQ To SQL Applications to NHibernate. You wait and see... :)

No more ranting. It's a holiday for gosh sakes...

Happy Halloween!

David Hayden

Posted Fri, Oct 31 2008 12:28 PM by David Hayden

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Comments

Prajwal Tuladhar wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 12:43 PM

I have dedicated a year for LINQ to SQL and at the end it does not matter. I am wondering if I should trust Microsoft based tools and frameworks. From now on NHibernate rocks for me.

What if Microsoft drops support for other tools/frameworks like ASP.NET MVC or Unity and so on in the future???

DotNetKicks.com wrote LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 12:53 PM

You've been kicked (a good thing) - Trackback from DotNetKicks.com

Colin Jack wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 12:58 PM

"Get the original LINQ To SQL Development Team and other interested developers together directly under Scott Guthrie and give them a shot at LINQ To SQL - The Revival! Make it open source on CodePlex and follow a similar successful methodology to how the MVC Framework was developed."

Yeah the comparison between the open nature of the teams behind MVC/MEF and the behavior of the EF team is striking. In one approach you build on best practices/patterns and engage or employ community members....

Anonymous wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 1:26 PM

Don't count on a revival of LINQ to SQL. It is dying alright.

This is so that developers and 3rd party vendors cannot take LINQ to SQL and create architectures that smoke the EF and therefore everyone has to use the EF. Next you will see a whole host of user interface controls that sport new binding interfaces that only the EF architecture supports and there will be suprisingly little to know documentation unil months and months after the official release, you getting the picture here?

Josh wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 3:39 PM

What is truely scare is when they release Azure .NET Objects Services and down play the Entity Framework as a mistake.* Wait till Mix 09:)

Microsoft needs to be a little bit more internally controlled about organic development.  Do we really need 3 ways of doing the same thing.

Release one ORM Software, Microsoft and extend it as needed.

*Azure .NET Objects Services - is a made up product name in the tradition of .NET crappy marketing names.

Rush wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 4:24 PM

Please don't kill LINQ to SQL! Give it a good home and let us continue working on and with it! Thanks

Ray wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 6:39 PM

maybe there should be a 'vote of confidence' for L2S? You know what I'm talking about...

Jonathan wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:01 PM

Does anyone see the irony of "killing" L2S right around Halloween?  This is the perfect "holiday" for death and dead and the like.

Sean wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:09 PM

"This is so that developers and 3rd party vendors cannot take LINQ to SQL and create architectures that smoke the EF and therefore everyone has to use the EF."

Some of you people are so damn retarded.  Do you people even think about the stuff you say?  Seriously...

Let's think about this for a minute.  LINQ to SQL will remain in the .NET Framework.  That said, there is NOTHING stopping the development community from creating "architectures that smoke the EF".  Additionally, if LINQ to SQL were really that awesome, don't you think that Microsoft would be keeping it around?

I understand the frustration that you have, but trust me,  LINQ to SQL wasn't a good platform when compared to the alternatives.  What I find most people like is the LINQ syntax, which is no reason to keep LINQ to SQL around.

Steve Ballmer wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Fri, Oct 31 2008 10:16 PM

Damn, you got my number.

Living in the Tech Avalanche Generation » LINQ To SQL dead? Raise the damn building! wrote Living in the Tech Avalanche Generation » LINQ To SQL dead? Raise the damn building!
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 12:05 AM

Pingback from  Living in the Tech Avalanche Generation » LINQ To SQL dead? Raise the damn building!

Dave Schinkel wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 12:43 AM

Maybe if Microsoft wasn't in such a rush to have a "new latest and greatest framework out each month", they'd actually not be retiring things like this.  Rather than rush the "next best thing", slow down for once to a "reasonable" pace and think out what the hell you're doing.

Dave Schinkel wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 12:47 AM

But hey, then again, at least this is not DataSets.  Gotta givem that.  The worst hobbyist object in the world...disaster.

BuzzKillington wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 2:59 AM

Oh man... I am depressed about this. I better learn some silverlight and MVC before they decide to kill them as well.

Yngve Nilsen wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 7:52 AM

Okay, so at first I saw this as a "WHAAT??", but after looking more closely at the Entity Framework. One question comes to mind. What was the point with Linq to SQL when the entity framework provides us with more options, more possibilities and alot of the features that were lacking from the getgo? Why did they tease us with Linq to SQL instead of just going full on with Entity Framework?

Jan wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Sat, Nov 1 2008 12:37 PM

I have a better question.  If they knew they were going to release two.  They knew one was going first with fewer features and a second one later with more.  Why did they simply not make the second one the next version of the first one? The could have just added the new capabilities in the next realse and then none of this confusion would ever have happened.  They have two products will *almost* the same API.  Yet there are different in stupid ways.

Reflective Perspective - Chris Alcock » The Morning Brew #214 wrote Reflective Perspective - Chris Alcock » The Morning Brew #214
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 2:32 AM

Pingback from  Reflective Perspective - Chris Alcock  » The Morning Brew #214

Ed Perez wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 3:06 AM

Looks like they are tying a big boat anchor to linq so it won't sail anymore. EF's a big n heavy anchor and it sure will keep linq in the harbor. I got a cruise to catch. Heading to nhibernate now. Back to queries in strings. It's not that bad.

Jan, you think they are the same? Try using them beyond the demo they show at PDC and you will know. I tried using it to port some of my working linq to sql multi-tier stuff and after a couple hours just got fed up of working around every little problem. The SQL in the profiler also sucked and many queries kept failing. All this despite coming out a year later.

Kamran Shahid wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 3:21 AM

Very Bad from Microsoft.I am spending my vast time in learning  it and suddenly Microsoft take it out of there concentration

I will now also now concentrate on Nhibernate.[I don't like Entity framework who knows what micr5osft can do with that]

2008 November 03 - Links for today « My (almost) Daily Links wrote 2008 November 03 - Links for today « My (almost) Daily Links
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 4:28 AM

Pingback from  2008 November 03 - Links for today « My (almost) Daily Links

Ross Hawkins wrote LINQ to SQL
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 6:02 AM

LINQ to SQL

Willem wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 7:16 AM

I am a Ruby On Rails developer. For a specific project I needed to use asp.net. I therefore enjoyed using the asp.net MVC framework, which is very good (although not mature, but it will get there) together with Linq to SQL, which is also very good. However, the way that Microsoft disregards its development community is just mind-boggling. I truly miss the open source community, which is so much more transparent and trustworthy.  The very unprofessional/self-centered way that Microsoft handles these things (such as the death of Linq 2 Sql) is certainly going to see them loose many, many developers.

Ian Cooper [MVP] wrote LINQ to SQL, EF, and the Thunderdome Solution
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 8:37 AM

There is a lot of comment around recent pronouncements from the ADO.NET team that their future strategy

Community Blogs wrote LINQ to SQL, EF, and the Thunderdome Solution
on Mon, Nov 3 2008 9:06 AM

There is a lot of comment around recent pronouncements from the ADO.NET team that their future strategy

JD’s Blog » LINQ-to-SQL - Goneburger wrote JD’s Blog » LINQ-to-SQL - Goneburger
on Tue, Nov 4 2008 3:10 AM

Pingback from  JD’s Blog   » LINQ-to-SQL - Goneburger

Billy McCafferty wrote re: LINQ To SQL is Dead - Read Between the Lines
on Tue, Nov 4 2008 2:22 PM

Let me know if you need any assistance with the podcasts...although I've never done one, I'd love to help out where I can.  Now that LINQ to SQL is...well...anyway, now that there's going to be a lot more interest in NHibernate, I'd love to be more publicly involved.  You can contact me via devlicio.us

David Hayden - Florida .NET Developer - C# and SQL Server wrote Learn ASP.NET MVC and NHibernate O/R Mapper - Sharp Architecture
on Fri, Nov 14 2008 9:52 AM

Now that LINQ To SQL is dead...

David Hayden - Florida .NET Developer - C# and SQL Server wrote IUpdatable for LINQ To SQL and ADO.NET Data Services Updated - O/R Mappers
on Sun, Dec 14 2008 9:37 AM

Microsoft should have provided this with .NET 3.5 SP1...

Karl Seguin wrote Oxite - Oh Dear Lord Why?!
on Mon, Dec 15 2008 10:05 PM

A couple weeks ago Microsoft released their first public version of Oxite - a blogging engine built using

Community Blogs wrote Oxite - Oh Dear Lord Why?!
on Mon, Dec 15 2008 10:43 PM

A couple weeks ago Microsoft released their first public version of Oxite - a blogging engine built using

Four Technologies to Master in 2009 ??? Life as a Coder wrote Four Technologies to Master in 2009 ??? Life as a Coder
on Mon, Jan 5 2009 7:19 PM

Pingback from  Four Technologies to Master in 2009 ??? Life as a Coder