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Eric Wise

Business & .NET

Should we uncap H1-B visas?

I've spent the morning considering this, given the recent statements by Bill Gates about H1-B limitations (currently 65,000) and how this is damaging to technology companies.

There are a few differing points of view on this:

Buy USA View- There are US citizen IT workers that are currently out of work.  We should make sure we've employed everyone we possibly can before we increase H1-Bs

This view, like most generalizations, is highly flawed.  To make this statement you're making an assumption that all of the unemployed workers are "employable".  This is not true, as companies require varied skillsets, people skills, and experience levels.  I've done some interviewing and resume review, and I can tell you that some 95% of resumes received for a position are trash.

Cheap *** Corporations Want H1-Bs to Save Money- Absolutely not true. 

If you research H-1B guidlines, they have to establish a market rate range for the position and must pay the H1-B worker > 5% of the minimum of that range.  So if us programmers are averaging 40,000-60,000 in a given market, then the minimum you can pay an H1-B is slightly more than 40,000.  Not to mention that while here H1-Bs pay into our social security system, money they never get back out.  Increasing the flow of H1-Bs is like free retirement money for Americans.

 

So what should we do?  Well, I personally tend to swing towards a more lightly regulated capitalistic society.  This means that I think we should raise caps on H1-Bs if companies are demanding access to foreign workers.  I don't buy into the wage decrease arguments at all, since regulations require fair pay and not to mention that as we increase the flow of money to countries like India, their economies will boom, causing inflation, causing rising wages (you can see some of this already if you keep track of offshore developer rates, they're up $5-$7/hr from where they were a few years ago).  As this trend continues offshoring demand will decrease.  This is a very basic, simple demand curve that any first year economics student can show you.  Increased price lowers demand.

What we do need here on American shores is a few things:

  1. Better education.  I'm sorry for anyone who gets offended, but our education system is going straight to hell.  When I was in school the majority of students around me didn't know crap, and the coursework wasn't hard enough to make them learn anything.  There were probably 5 students out of 100 that I would have personally hired.  This is the fault of increasing pressure to push all high school grads into college and competition by colleges trying to grab as many students as they can.  By making college a broad appeal we have watered it down so the masses can handle it.  This is a huge disservice to those of us who obtained a degree by being passionate about learning, not showing up, doing the minimum, and paying the fee.  Foreign colleges tend to be much more competitive, and push out higher quality graduates, hence a demand for foreign workers.
  2. Find alternative ways to lower costs.  Someone explain to me, in this day of blazing fast internet, video conferencing, etc. why the hell we have IT departments located in New York City, LA, and other extremely high cost of living areas?  Due to the costs of living, a developer with my skills in New York City is paid about double what I am paid in the midwest to maintain a comparible lifestyle.  Just think, if you set up your IT operations somewhere else, you could hire two developers for the price of one... without offshoring.  The problem here is that the IT labor is concentrated in the high cost of living areas, but personally I think if companies started moving their operation centers eventually the workers would follow.
  3. Improve your job advertising and interviewing capabilities.  I swear I could probably make a lucrative consulting career doing little else besides helping companies write job ads and interviewing candidates for them.  So many companies do such a bad job at this it isn't even funny.  Part of the problem is the electronic distribution... "resume bombs" if you will that dump unqualified resumes into the HR inbox.  The other part is that many companies put job ads up that ask for unreasonable skillsets.  Like those that ask for C#, J2EE, Cobal, and SAP experience and are looking for a mid-level (5 yrs) developer.  I would love to meet the person who has been able to get relevant experience with unrelated technologies like that in 5 years.

 


Published Apr 28 2005, 07:14 AM by Eric Wise
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Comments

darrell said:

IT departments are located where there is a large pool of talent. :) I've seen how little talent there is to choose from in moderately large cities, so if it took a large city to get good people, I'd do it!

Of course, telecommuting is an option, but most managers can't manage someone they don't see.
# April 28, 2005 9:12 AM

Justise said:

#3! I hate #3!

I'm glad I'm not just insane and it really is unreasonable for companies to be asking things like this.
# April 28, 2005 9:29 AM

anon said:

>I don't buy into the wage decrease arguments at all, since regulations require fair pay

come on, give me a break, since when do corporations play by the rules...ever heard of Enron, Worldcomm, Tyco, etc? Besides, who is checking compliance and enforcing the law? I have never heard of a 'salary auditor.'
# April 28, 2005 11:59 AM

Eric Wise said:

Anon, if your company is doing this all you need to do is send an anonymous tip to the fed and I'm sure they'll jump on it.
# April 28, 2005 2:13 PM

Oskar Austegard said:

Increase the H1-B quota, get rid of the "Diversity Lottery" (which hands out 55,000 permanent residency "green cards" each year), and close the L1 visa loophole, which has no prevailing wage requirements: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Ae-4S6dRkeUJ:www.naccb.org/government/postionpaper04_01.pdf+L-1B+visa+wage&hl=en&client=firefox-a
# April 28, 2005 2:33 PM

Sam said:

I'm of the general opinion that programmers have a lot more to fear from their own lack of ambition than out-sourcing.

I don't agree with #2. Look at ThoughtWorks or FogCreek, or any number of successful companies in large cities. I shouldn't have to compromise my life-style just because your company wants to pinch a few pennies. An extra $50K/year for each dev doesn't double the expense load. Hiring "programmers" who take no pride in producing a good product is expensive. Not being able to attract good developers because you're pinching pennies on salaries, benefits, or environment (hardware/software/offices/etc) is expensive. A truly good developer is cheap in comparison I think.

#3 definitely. We have a job posting out at work. 5 years VB & SQL experience. 3 years c#. Degree preferred. I'd estimate they're willing to pay ~$45K in an area that isn't exactly cheap. Who are we going to get with an advertisement like that with the salary they're willing to pay? We aren't going to get a pro that's for sure. We're going to get a slacker pure & simple. Probably someone who's been in the industry 10 or 20 years who's never stepped outside of their Basic roots. Of course I don't get to write the job postings. :)
# April 28, 2005 7:53 PM

Eric Wise said:

Sam,

I slightly agree with your comment on #2 however I wonder how moving from an expensive urban area to a less expensive urban area would be "sacrificing your lifestyle". I've been around and I find there is very little difference in the conveniences you get between cities of similar sizes.

It would never occur that all companies would move their operations to cheaper locals, but I'm sure there are many developers like me who would rather live like a king in the midwest than live an average lifestyle in a noisy, dirty, city. =)
# April 29, 2005 6:41 AM

Sam said:

Well, I work in Plano,TX and live in TheColony (your average, not-expensive, middle-class suburb). That's about as far out as I'd like to get from the city.

A few miles outside of Houston you'll find a little town called "Cut&Shoot". It doesn't get anymore "country" than that. :) No need to migrate away from cities en-mass to get a lower cost of living.

I suppose my idea of "Mid-West" is no better than most people's idea of Texas though, so I'm probably just knee-jerking to the idea. :)
# April 29, 2005 9:21 AM

James Stansell said:

Regarding U.S. education, Doc Searls has a thought-provoking essay at http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/8280 ("Getting Flat, Part 2"). His thoughts parallel some from Steve Talbott from some years ago (http://www.netfuture.org/). Some of Tom Kyte's recent essays (http://tkyte.blogspot.com/) also resonate with Doc's view about "self-education".
# April 29, 2005 12:01 PM

m.m. said:

It seems like our friend ewise looking only where is feasible for him. ewise, If you would please alert feds of the fact that Applied Materials has a DB team that 22 out of 23 are Indians. Also unfortunately I can't remember a network company had an Indian doing thier hardwware design for about $10/hour in Bay Area.
My family member is a mortgage banker that was ripped off about $150K and when he asked the feds to arrest the feds, they told him they know about him and he's been doing this for sometime and fed's waiting for the right time to get the maximum media attention before they arrest him.

My recommendation to our friend, ewise is to look around with open eyes.

m.m.
# June 18, 2005 1:09 PM

Dave said:

The jobs market is like any other market:

Price (salaries) are base on supply and demand if a lot of companies are looking for a hot skill with very few people to fill the job they inevitably end up paying more as employees typically work for the company that offers the best overall package.

So assuming that employees on work visas are qualified for a particular job, it will increase the supply hence bring salaries down as a whole.

That is not necessarily a bad thing as theoretically lower overheads  should make a company more stable, the company may even be able to higher additional developers.

To be frank I don't believe the salary provisions (5% junk) is really that effective simply because there is a salary range.

If you were able to effectively quantify the worth of a developer (whole other subject) you would be able to fix an exact price and simply state that the visa candidate should be paid that.

For example taking the numbers in the article:

5% above 40,000 is 42,000

So if you assume an even distribution of salaries in the range 40-60K

10 % of visa applicants are overpaid (an average of 1,000)

90 % of visa applicants are underpaid (an average of 9,000)

The only real solution I can see to this is to speed up the Green Card process so that visa applicants are able to shop around for a new job shortly after they are hired. This would mean that companies would be forced to pay the correct salary very shortly after making the hire so would only pay for the visa process when there was a real shortage of skills.

# August 6, 2007 10:26 PM

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