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Eric Wise

Business & .NET

Bye Bye Team Foundation Server

Ya know, I really tried to give team foundation server a fair shake.  My opinion on it is as follows:

  1. It's a generally better source control system than source safe.
  2. It's really expensive.
  3. It's a pain in the ass to administrate.
  4. It's a pain in the ass to troubleshoot.

So, I haven't been around in quite some time.  We've been getting ready to roll out a system that not only runs an entire insurance business (claims, enrollment, sales, billing a million dollar+, etc).  The great news is that the system is live, on-time, and under budget.  (I'm going to do a few posts in the future about why this was so) The bad news is that team foundation server decided to stop working the day after go live.  As in, no services load, the websites are down, it's obviously a service account problem but myself and the lead network admin have been unable to resolve the problem so far.

So our source control was down, I had to migrate back to vss 2005, and I was pretty pissed off that it ran properly for 6 months, nothing seemed to have changed, and it died this week of all weeks.  Troubleshooting is a pain in the ass.  There's really no admin interface to speak of, the error messages are cryptic, google et al are nearly no help at all.

So bye bye Team Foundation Server.  We were on workgroup and were going to upgrade to the full server.  But frankly if I'm going to ask my company to spend a few thousand dollars on something, I'd like it to have a gui to administrate from and if it goes down, I should be able to fix it in less than an hour.

Is that too much to ask?



Comments

Derik Whittaker said:

Eric,

We have been using VSTS for about 6-8 months now and about the only positive thing i can say is about the new source control.

I actuall have 2 posts about this a while back

1) What they got right - devlicio.us/.../Team-Foundation-Server-_1320_-What-they-got-Right.aspx

2) What they got wrong - devlicio.us/.../Team-Foundation-Server_2620_-What-they-got-WRONG.aspx

I am about to move onto another company and they currently DO NOT use VSTS and if i have anything to say about it they will not be moving to it in the future.

It is really sad that MS has tried to build a tool that all .net coders could benefit from from, but in typical fashion the 1.0 version is a flop....:(

Derik

# May 31, 2007 3:31 PM

Connor Peterson said:

Thats a little harsh... it's an infinitely better source control system than Source Safe.

# May 31, 2007 3:57 PM

Dave Donaldson said:

Wow, I've only experienced good things from TFS. Aside from TeamBuild (which was obviously an afterthought), I find everything else to be in good working order. The source control is good, but more importantly for me is all the work item tracking. The only downside I have with TFS is that I wish the Windows Sharepoint Services integration wasn't there. Anything Sharepoint tends to lead to trouble at times.

BTW, just to ask the obvious question, are you sure you were using the TFS Workgroup Edition (which only allows 5 users)? You said TFS stopped working after 6 months, which is exactly what would happen if you used the TFS Trial Edition.

# May 31, 2007 4:08 PM

Dave Donaldson said:

Oh, forgot to comment about the cost of TFS. TFS itself isn't that expensive, about $2500 per processor (retail) last I checked, and that includes the SQL Server 2005 license. Compare that to something like StarTeam or ClearCase. To access TFS with Team Explorer, each client needs a TFS CAL, which is about $600 (retail). This additional cost is included with any of the VSTS products, or you can get the license by itself to use with VS 2005 Pro or Standard.

# May 31, 2007 4:20 PM

Blair Jennings said:

A good substitute for TFS is the combination of Subversion, SharpForge and CruiseControl.NET. Most of the functionality of TFS is in those now, and by using either VisualSVN or Ankhsvn plugins for Visual Studio you can access the svn respository right from VS.

# May 31, 2007 4:29 PM

FransBouma said:

I second subversion. It's easy to get into, works all the time and easily backupped as well. Very scriptable and simply works, no fluff, just does what it says it does.

I'd choose subversion over any VSS version whatsoever.

# May 31, 2007 4:36 PM

Damien Guard said:

Subversion for the server with AnkhSVN and TortoiseSVN for the client.  

[)amien

# May 31, 2007 6:06 PM

Adam Dymitruk said:

-AnkhSVN

don't use it.. in fact don't integrate any source control into the VS ide. Drop down to windows explorer and do it there.

# May 31, 2007 11:01 PM

shebert said:

Anything is better than VSS.  :)  MS did TFS a favor by setting expectations REALLY REALLY low with that garbage.

I definitely agree with subversion for source control - it's a very powerful source control system.  Simple and very effective. Well worth your time to investigate.  There are plenty of 'get Subversion running in 30 minutes or less" blog entries out there.

Anhk is useful to see the status of files within your solution while running VS, but I wouldn't recommend using it for checking things in.  It definitly tries to do too much and can put you in some difficult situations. Tortoise with Explorer integration is far better.

# June 1, 2007 4:46 AM

Eric Wise said:

Pretty sure we're on the workgroup edition that's in the msdn pack.

Even if I wasn't and the trial expiring was the issue I would be angered and say "Where is the popup/notification that says 'Hey man, I'm going to expire in 30 days, you best buy a license'!

Once things settle with this migration/rollout, I'm going to explore a new source control and work item tracking system.  Personally I'm leaning towards either Vault or Subversion + Axosoft's awesome bug/feature tracking tool.

# June 1, 2007 9:16 AM

Erik Lane said:

Eric, I think you would be wise, pun intended, to go with SVN and Axosoft OnTime.

# June 1, 2007 10:05 AM

Jay Kimble said:

FWIW, My source control/bug tracking solution is....

Subversion

and

Axosoft (free version... I'm a 1 man shop right now)

Total cost for my business... $0 (and having used Vault and Subversion I would put them at equal levels.. except Vault does have good support if you need/when you need support).

# June 1, 2007 4:26 PM

Joe Ocampo said:

Subversion for the server with AnkhSVN and TortoiseSVN for the client and TargetProcess for the project management!

Oh yeah!

# June 1, 2007 8:58 PM

Matthwe Evans said:

We've tried 'em all:

SourceSafe.

SVN

TFS

Sourcesafe. 'nuff said.

Agree that SVN + Ankh +TortoiseSVN + Nant + Cruise Control can do most of what TFS does. Its a fair old pain in the butt to install them, configure them and join them up though, wouldn't you say?

TFS does it all, and pretty neatly too.  Backups are SQL Server backups. Robust, easily configured.

I agree that the TFS admin tool is *poor* (In fact what does it actually do?), and some elements feel distinctly beta, but on the whole....

# June 19, 2007 10:41 AM

Jason said:

TFS just sux, it feels like VSS with a nod to svn, I spend more time battling TFS than I do actually working.

nuf said.

# May 27, 2008 1:00 PM

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